MR. GREGORY: We are joined now by the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Republican Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana.
Welcome to MEET THE PRESS, Senator.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN): Thank you very much.
MR. GREGORY: You've heard from Secretary Gates and Clinton. And I wonder, are you satisfied with the progress in Libya and with their explanation of our mission?
SEN. LUGAR: Well, I was startled to hear Secretary Gates say that Libya was not a vital interest, that Secretary Clinton then came in with the fact that our European allies are very disturbed about the situation. And, of course, we have justified military action as a humanitarian action to stop the shooting of civilians. I would just start by saying, before our nation goes to war or has military action, there must be a plan, there must be objectives, the endgame, what we want to, to achieve. And then, at least, some means as to how that's going to occur. That has not happened as yet, and the president has said we've had success because Gadhafi would have murdered many people in Benghazi. But the fact is that there was fighting in Benghazi because the so-called rebels, the other people that are not Gadhafi supporters, started a civil war in Libya, following civil wars that had commenced in Tunisia and Egypt. And, and facts are that that civil war was proceeding and, in many cases, the rebels seemed to be winning, except when they got to Benghazi, or in Tripoli. So, at this point, we then adopt a no-fly zone with the thought of knocking out Gadhafi's aircraft. And then the ground zone situation in which we knocked out the tanks and trucks and the other situation.
Now, having done all of that, the fact is now that the rebels, as you pointed out, in Ajdabiya and...(unintelligible)...have come back, so that on the eastern side of Libya, the cities all seem to be lined up with the rebels. On the western side and Misrata, the Gadhafi people are trying to take that so they at least have all of that side of the country. And, in the meanwhile, we're saying that we're going to back off of the no-fly zone or take a much less of a role there, leave that to the Europeans. It--and it simply leaves the whole situation up for grabs in which there is hopefulness, maybe, that Gadhafi will leave or that something bad will happen to him, or, or, in fact, that somehow these persons who are the rebels who we really don't know, who have no particular government, are, are going to form something that is more friendly to us or to the Europeans.
MR. GREGORY: Well, let me ask you to unpack that a little bit. If it's not in our vital interest, bottom line, should we not be involved?
SEN. LUGAR: I think there should have been a plan for what our objectives were, a debate as to why this was in our vital interest before we committed military forces to Libya.
MR. GREGORY: It's interesting, the press secretary for the president, Jay Carney, said this was not, in fact, a war. This was, "A time limited, scope limited, military action." Do you think that that's a bit of dancing there? And does the president, when he speaks to the nation, have to be more forthright about what we're engaged in?
SEN. LUGAR: Well, when I had the opportunity to ask the president during this telephonic conference that Secretary Clinton has mentioned, he justified action as a humanitarian gesture, that it would have been unconscionable to stand by while Gadhafi murdered people in Benghazi. As a result, these people were saved, and now we move backward in terms of our obligations in the situation. An, an event no boots on the ground. The president has reiterated that. So this means, in essence, the Libyans are still going to have to solve their civil war. We've pretty well knocked out Gadhafi's air force and many of his tanks, but the fact is that the country is still very divide with east and west cities...
MR. GREGORY: And what is our commitment? What is our commitment to that civil war?
SEN. LUGAR: Well, I don't believe we should be engaged in the Libyan civil war. I believe the Libyans are going to have to work that out. The fact is that we don't have particular ties with anybody in the Libyan picture, and we will have to at least adjust to whatever that outcome may be. But, as far as we're concerned, as Secretary Gates has said, it is not of vital interest to the United States. American interests are not at stake, and we clearly have already done much more than our part with regard to the no-fly zone, with regard to European friends.
MR. GREGORY: Will it require more funds from the government for this military operation?
SEN. LUGAR: Of course. And that's what I stated from the beginning. There has to be objectives and a plan and an agreement that we're prepared to devote the military forces but also the money. It makes no sense, sort of in the front room, where in Congress we are debating seemingly every day the deficits, the debt ceiling situation coming up, the huge economic problems we have; but in the back room we are spending money on a military situation in Libya. Estimates are that about $1 billion has already been spent on an undeclared war in Libya.
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
SEN. LUGAR: Some would say only hundreds of millions, and that that will diminish in the days ahead. But what knows how long this goes on? And furthermore, who has really budgeted for Libya at all? I have not really heard the administration come forward saying that we're going to have to devote these funds, folks. And therefore something else will have to go or it simply adds to the deficit.
MR. GREGORY: Let me ask you, finally, Senator Lugar, can the U.S. and its allies accomplish the mission that they've set out to achieve if Moammar Gadhafi remains in power?
SEN. LUGAR: Probably not. In large part, since we have taken the position that Moammar Gadhafi is an especially evil, bad dictator, and we have now indicated, the president said that he must go, he lacks legitimacy and so forth. Others have made the same statement. But if, in fact, he stays, is successful with his forces in subduing the rebels, then we are going to have to deal with Gadhafi and whatever we have there. I think there is sort of a vague hope still, animated by Secretary Clinton, that perhaps he may be thinking about where he might go, or with his money and his family and so forth, who might accept him in the world and sort of slip out of the picture. But even if he did...
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
SEN. LUGAR: ...the forces that are allied with him may very well still prevail in the civil war.
MR. GREGORY: All right. We will leave it there. Senator Lugar, thank you very much.
SEN. LUGAR: Thank you.
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